Arsenal
Newbie
I cant believe his face! amazing
Posts: 23
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Post by Arsenal on Feb 2, 2005 14:42:59 GMT -5
why is it you always go on about people who sell turtles under 4 inches, is bad and evil and wrong, and are related to bush... blah blah!!! ;D But the www turtlesale com that is above, sell turtles under 4 inches. hatchings. where is the logic in that... merry christmas
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Post by Chez on Feb 2, 2005 17:53:30 GMT -5
I'm trying to reform that law actually, you can read about it here if you want. Places like that evil place above claim to be "adopting" out the turtles. So that, in essence, is legal. I don't agree with the law because I feel it's outdated. People are much more wiser about reptiles these days, at least more than they were thirty years ago. That compromised with the fact that information is much more readily available. :Chez
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Post by csurfleet on Feb 3, 2005 4:01:44 GMT -5
I'm not against turtles under 4" being sold, I just want to make sure that all turtles are kept prpoerly. I would though much rather see people adopting unwanted turtles from rescue centers, there are many thousands of these poor creatures that need good homes. And after all, if you decide that you cannot keep it later, you have not added to the problem as you do when you put a shop-bought turtle up for adoption.
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Arsenal
Newbie
I cant believe his face! amazing
Posts: 23
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Post by Arsenal on Feb 3, 2005 9:07:37 GMT -5
yeah im not bothered about it. cause the turtles ive brought have always been under 4inches ive never cared. o well i was just wondering woooooooo
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Post by Jinx on Feb 3, 2005 12:56:51 GMT -5
Hey Arsenal
I was just wondering how many turtles you own or have bought. ... do you have a preference for the turtles under 4inches?
Jinx
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Arsenal
Newbie
I cant believe his face! amazing
Posts: 23
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Post by Arsenal on Feb 3, 2005 17:02:44 GMT -5
hey! when i lived in cyprus i had 2 res for 4 years, but then i moved to england and had to give them up to my mate. she is looking after them now... then last may i got a res and a ouachita map, they were all bought for like £20 about $35. im not bothered about turtles being bought and being less then 4inches, because nowadays i believ people buy them and will treat them right, as to 20 years ago they will keep them in a fish bowl and that be that
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Post by csurfleet on Feb 4, 2005 8:28:38 GMT -5
I don't agree that everyone who gets a turtle now will keep it right, although the situation is improving. I do think that this education issue is seperate to the 4" rule though.
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Post by Chez on Feb 4, 2005 15:16:27 GMT -5
I guess it's slowly improving, the education part. The information is all over the place, internet, books, magazines, hell even on TV sometimes. People just have to want to learn. I mean, most newbies you meet still have their 6" turtle in a 30g.. but like Arsenal said, that's better than 20 years ago when most turtles wouldn't have even made it that far when kept in those [expletive] lagoons.. :Chez
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Arsenal
Newbie
I cant believe his face! amazing
Posts: 23
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Post by Arsenal on Feb 4, 2005 18:55:10 GMT -5
yeah thats the only improvement, thats the information nowadays is amazing
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Post by Jinx on Feb 4, 2005 21:19:54 GMT -5
Actually, there have been lots of improvements in the last 20 or so years.
A vet, would have been borderline impossible and the only reason our childhood vet knew anything was that he was raised on a farm and helped snappers over the years, but he always said he was hardly an expert. ANd even then it was only ever advice. Never any procedures or anything. Today most schools offer reptile type courses, and the vets are much better prepared
Food, do you know that 20 years ago dried flies and other useles insects are what was offered, advocated and sold as turtle food, the best they said. It was what they ate in the wild....lol.
Housing; with a lick of common sense, its hard to do it wrong. If in doubt, repeat what you see in nature for them. Only petstores liked lagoons.
Its only natural that we become more informed and advance our knowledge/care ... its human nature. But how great is information when its confusing, misleading and well sometimes downright wrong. What good is this information is nothing is done with it......hmmm???
Jinx
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Post by Jinx on Feb 4, 2005 21:35:09 GMT -5
Arsenal, just also wanted to say that alot of people dont like selling turtles under 4inches and not only because it is the law (in the US anyways), it is also pretty friggin immoral and unethical and outright wrong way to do business.
Most people buy turtles cause they are so small, as soon as they grow past 4-5-6 inches, most start with the ohh i cant keep it, i'm moving, its hard to keep clean, i wasnt prepared, some are honest, he is not cute no more, too much work..... whatever the excuse ... but if the offer of a cute 1-2 inch turtle wasnt being dangled in front of them, they wouldnt be in this postion. And the turtle wouldnt be at risk.
Thats all I care about, the turtle as a species ... not their owners, who should be flogged more often than not. I dont feel bad or sorry for them, and feel no two ways about calling someone out for something I dont agree with. For instance, thos epeople who get 2-3-4 turtles than as the reached 4-5-6 inches, start to give them away and get more babies.
If turtles, particularly the problematic ones, like RES, were sold onyl when a bit larger say over 4inches, then you lose the people who are buying it cause its cute. And those who really want turtles stick around. Turtles should also cost more than 5bucks each, that encourages spontaneous buying. Perhaps even start a 'dogtag' thing for turtles.
Jinx
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Post by Chez on Feb 4, 2005 21:42:58 GMT -5
I read about the flies a while ago.. I thought that it was pretty funny.. come on, how much nutrition can a fly provide? lol I try to put on the best information on the site, does anyone think any of it is confusing or wrong? I hope not, but I'll fix it if it is. :Chez
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Post by Chez on Feb 4, 2005 21:58:04 GMT -5
I hope everyone shares this view. On the flipside, though, is the fact that breeders, more than there should be, resort to taking turtles from the wild who are of legal size, because raising them from babies takes time and money. On top of that, there are the breeders who will raise them from babies, but overfeed, and feed too much protein, so the turtles will reach 4" faster. This only creates unhealthy turtles, and diminishes wild populations. I'm not saying that all, or maybe not even most, breeders do this. But they are, and it really scares me, for the turtles sake. Everyone knows the wild populations, with the exception of RES, painteds, cooters, are too low as it is. I think that selling hatchlings at a much higher price, and forcing knowledge down peoples throat at the time of purchase, would work out better for the turtles, both in the wild and in captivity. I'm just one person though :Chez
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Post by Jinx on Feb 4, 2005 22:38:09 GMT -5
True . .. in the case of the red ear I say take it from the wild if it is not suppose to be there. BC has started to do this and they then adopt out the turtles, surprisingly doing well.
Forcing knowledge down ones throat does not work ... its like helping someone when they do not want to be helped. Unless your there forcing it down all the time ... but that takes one back to the whole scaring them issue.
I also think providing more variety of turtles would be better for all as well.
Jinx
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Post by Chez on Feb 5, 2005 1:17:22 GMT -5
Take the res from the wild.. I don't see why not, as long as it's kept seperate from CBB turtles. Besides, they're considered by some a "pest" turtle in the wild, as they aren't indigenous(sp) to many areas in which they exist. Just dumped by the people we were discussing a few posts up.. lol
Frankly I'd rather scare people into not getting a turtle.. it's better to leave the stock in the store and not continue the cycle by selling/restocking.. So when I worked at petsmart, I made it personal game to unconvince people that they wanted one, unless I really felt that they were going to take care of it. For the rest, I suggested a hampster, and 90% of the time, if anything, thats what they went home with ;D lmao :Chez
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