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Post by Jinx on Oct 6, 2004 13:13:03 GMT -5
Hey All
I recently got into an argument with a turtle breeder, small time, about 20 RES a year she puts into the trade.
Our argument was about her openly manipulating a law of the US of A, yes, the 4" law. She posted RES-CHEAP!! with a pic of some that were maybe 1inch or so, 3.00 and that was that. When it was pointed out to her that it is illegal to sell RES under 4" she writes back that she forgot her disclaimer......that they must be for scientific or educational purposes, otherwise it is illegal for her to sell to you. So please do not say you want it for a pet.
I called her out on it....you know manipulating a law for her own financial gain and so she can sell in good consciousness. She felt i was attacking her and went on about how well she cares for them and she is not cruel, she even uses the money made so she can take better care of the two pet RES she has (that keep breeding).
Maybe, but the point is manipulating a law, for your own selfish gain - not how well you care for them.
Needless to say the thread was locked (although nothing nasty was said)...it continued in emails.....gawd help me.
Anyways....what is your guys opinion on her breeding an already over populated and "pest" pet animal, simply because she needs the money to maintain her own personal pets.
RES are fast becoming a problem, a big problem. I am a staunch believer of responsible pet ownership...and having the money to pay for your pets, without the need to breed and sell them, is part of being a responsible owner. No one said it was easy being responsible.....I myself have had to throw out eggs that were not suppose to be. Even though there is no 4' law in Canada. Look at classifieds, want ads and adoption boards, all the RES are just over 4-5 inches and already to big to handle, in desperate need of a home.
Just my thoughts.....hope to hear some other thoughts from others
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Post by Jinx on Oct 15, 2004 20:56:38 GMT -5
No takers.....
Okay....
I personally feel she is wrong and her actions are actually doing more harm than good for the animal (RES) that she claims to love so much.
I also feel that being able to financially support your pets is part of responsible pet ownership. This means one shouldnt have to breed their dog (or cat or fish or turtles) a few times a year simply to pay for their own pet.
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Post by csurfleet on Oct 20, 2004 10:26:56 GMT -5
Exactly! I am so fed up of people coming to me with 6" RES and telling me that they didn't know it would get so big, or that their "circumstances changed" and now they don't have the room for a 6ft fish tank.
People should take responsibility for their pets, they are not toys, they are living things.
End rant.....
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Post by Chez on Jan 31, 2005 0:58:06 GMT -5
Wow how in hell did I miss this one?
better late than never..
It really has to do with the fact that turtles are viewed as ornamental pets. People are far more likely to give up a turtle faster than they would a cat, for example.
The people that are doing this must not fully appreciate the joys of having a turtle, and probably shouldn't have gotten one in the first place. People that look at the turtle, and say through a mushed up face, "Hey twirtle twirtle"... and then walk away.
Later when they realize that the turtle requires a lot of time, by which time the turtle is probably stressed out and sick, it's keeper is out to find a new home for it.
Because with all of the stressed and sick turtles already on the markets, we really need more. And it's not going to stop, until the misconception that a turtle is an easy-to-care-for pet is eliminated. (takes a deep breath..)
How can this be accomplished? What can people like us do to end the ignorance?
:Chez
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Post by csurfleet on Jan 31, 2005 7:37:08 GMT -5
Fight for real education in pet shops. There is nothing we can do about people who know all the facts about keeping a turtle, and still decide to keep one when they can't keep them properly. The main issue is pet shops who sell babies for £10 each, not bothering to warn customers of the complexities of keeping turtles.
In my opinion a turtle should cost more. Think about it, if the pet only cost £10, why should you spend £300+ on its home? To the average person this makes little sense. If you charged more for a turtle and properly educated people about them, less people would buy, but those who truly wanted a turtle would pay the extra, keeping shop profits up, everyone wins!
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Post by Chez on Jan 31, 2005 11:54:22 GMT -5
Rightly said. But as you surely know, that is the exact reason pet stores sell the turtles for (symbol)10! Because the people are more likely to spends loads of money on the turtle if the turtle is cheap, and thats what they want the people to do: spend loads of money! They're not going to abolish a practice that is tried and true, just to save a turtles life! They jst don't care, they are not going to be bothered referring people to proper education, let alone teaching them. It's really a tragedy. But that'll all change, once I'm president and all ;D
:Chez
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Post by csurfleet on Feb 1, 2005 4:14:48 GMT -5
Not all pet stores are like that. My local store is really good, they have A4 sheets pinned on each animal enclosure giving an outline of the time and equipment needed to keep them. I have seen the staff on many occasions tell somebody that a pet wasn't right for them, pointed them to something they would be able to keep better. The people go away happy, and the place is always busy.
I have to admit that they were not always this good (they were never a 'bad' place though), but me and a few other people kept bombarding them with suggestions. They have no leg to stand on about proper information on the tanks, an A4 sheet costs about 10p max to produce, there are no excuses!
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Post by Chez on Feb 1, 2005 15:06:43 GMT -5
There are no excuses. But the bad stores will continue to do what they do, until they are forced to stop. By me, again, when I overthrow Bush.
You should list that good pet store in the good pets store thread in the Conservation board.
:Chez
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Post by Jinx on Feb 1, 2005 23:41:19 GMT -5
Interesting .... personally I dont agree with the way most people keep their turtles and I dont agree with most standards ... or general rule of thumbs in regards to turtle keeping.
Petstores are pet stores and always going to be petstores. Breeders and pet owners are the ones that can change.
Sadly the large majority of pet stores used by turtle keepers (particularly in these times) are large multi chain type stores, which have to care about the money, as that is what they are all about. That is thier concern ..... whereas we are standing somewhere completely different.
Jinx
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Post by csurfleet on Feb 2, 2005 3:16:47 GMT -5
Oooohhh! Don't get me started on large chains and companies. I can feel a rant coming. Urggghhh! Phew, held it in!
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Post by Chez on Feb 2, 2005 12:01:54 GMT -5
What pissed me off about PetSmart is that they claim to be better than PetCo, and in some ways they are. However they do provide caresheets for turtles, which is a good thing. However, the caresheets for most aquatic turtles said that the turtle in question could live happily in a 20g. I think that's ludicrous.
Which standards don't you believe in, Jinx? Like the 10g/inch rule?
Holding in rants is not allowed here ;D lmao
:Chez
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Post by Jinx on Feb 2, 2005 14:00:03 GMT -5
That is the one rule that drives me batty .... its not a nice place to start either and is barely good enough for a temporary enclosure. It misleads people into thinking the minimum is okay, as that is all that is ever mentioned, the barest minimum, the truth might scare them away. Example pet store caresheets ... 20g for a adult RES ... oh my god. A caresheet is only as good as the info on it.
Another is the feed as much as it can eat in 2-5minutes, or the no more than the size of his head. Ridiculous, some turtles eat like birds, others can eat all day all night and never stop, others eat or nibble through out the day. I happen to own a nibbler and a gorger. Both like variety and each has their own likes or dislikes.
And to those who think their way is the only way to keep turtles, make me nauseous.
Jinx
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Post by Chez on Feb 2, 2005 18:19:06 GMT -5
Excellent points.
Very true about the minimum being what is usually mentioned. People like us, who have informational websites, have the job of informing people of correct husbandry, right? The 10g is what is pretty much accepted by everyone, so that allows for some standardization between all the sources. Of course they give newcomers some sense of direction. I know when I first got my turtles, I drew comfort from them. And as I advanced, I as I'm sure others have and will, realized what does and does not work in my own situation, and what I also felt was better IMO in regards to care.
If we tell someone that a single adult res will do well in a 120g, which in most if not all cases will, then thats ok. Because you're right, we might scare them.. scare the newcomers with no turtles (which isn't so bad), but also the people who already have turtles, the group that I'm concerned with in particular, into abandoning their turtle(s), possibly into the wild, if we tell them that an outdoor pond would be ideal (which GTT:r does in Selecting a Tank). Those of us with sites like these have to consider all of these things, wouldn't you agree?
I think I sound a little defensive there lol.. sorry. I do think about these things when I put stuff on the site, I really do want people to have the best information. It's all about compromisation.. do I want this turtle to have an adequate life, or make his owner aprehensive for getting her in the first place?? Very tough decisions to make, IMO. Or maybe I'm just an idiot ;D lmao
:Chez
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